SLP Toolkit Podcast, Episode 25, Transcript

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\ Lisa: (00:10) \ Well hello Sarah. \

\ Sarah: (00:38) \ Hi Lisa. \

\ Lisa: (00:39) \ How’s it going today? \

\ Sarah: (00:40) \ It’s great. Happy Monday. \

\ Lisa: (00:42) \ I know, and it’s the day after my birthday. \

\ Sarah: (00:45) \ I know. So happy birthday to you. Was it a good one? \

\ Lisa: (00:48) \ It is. I’m 30-16. If you guys were all wondering how old I am. \

\ Sarah: (00:52) \ Yeah. \

\ Lisa: (00:52) \ So if you don’t know the math that is– \

\ Sarah: (00:55) \ You have celebrated your 30th birthday16 years. \

\ Lisa: (00:58) \ Well, no. It’s like when you count, you’re like 37, 38, 39, 30-10, 30-11, 30-12. That’s just counting. That’s not, I’m not like one of those that I’m like, I’m 30 and I have to stay 30 forever. It is that this celebration– \

\ Sarah: (01:12) \ but why can’t you just say you’re 46? \

\ Lisa: (01:15) \ What? I just said I’m 30-16. I don’t know why you’re like throwing that out there. \

\ Sarah: (01:18) \ But I love that you’re pretending that you are trying to hold on to a younger year. \

\ Lisa: (01:22) \ Well, I just look so fantastic. \

\ Sarah: (01:24) \ You look good for your age. \

\ Lisa: (01:25) \ and feel so fantastic. \

\ Sarah: (01:25) \ I mean you are old af but you look great. No, you’re not even old. \

\ Lisa: (01:31) \ So I really have not seen you in that long. For real. I think we always come in here and we joke about like, wow, we haven’t seen each other in forever, and we just spent like 72 hours straight together. \

\ Sarah: (01:41) \ Right. \

\ Lisa: (01:42) \ But- \

\ Sarah: (01:42) \ but I was gone. \

\ Lisa: (01:43) \ You were gone. Where were you? \

\ Sarah: (01:45) \ Did you get anything done while I was gone? Or was it like– \

\ Lisa: (01:46) \ I got everything done. \

\ Sarah: (01:47) \ while the cat’s away \

\ Lisa: (01:49) \ Maybe both. I was doing shots of vodka with myself. \

\ Sarah: (01:53) \ I always say– I think we’ve joked about this before that we need like a panda cam like they have at the zoo. It would have been amazing if there was a camera in here and I could have looked in to see what kind of shenanigans you were up to alone. \

\ Lisa: (02:03) \ Just put a secret cam. I just won’t know. And then you’ll see me just like, I don’t know. \

\ Sarah: (02:07) \ I’m going to, I have one at home I just got for my– \

\ Lisa: (02:09) \ I could be roller skating. I could’ve like brought in like a party and you had no idea. \

\ Sarah: (02:15) \ Seriously, I’m gone and I look in on the video \

\ Lisa: (02:20) \ like you do on your ring doorbell. \

\ Sarah: (02:21) \ And you’re having a book club. \

\ Lisa: (02:23) \ You’ll see like activity monitor–what does your your ring doorbell say? \

\ Sarah: (02:26) \ Oh I just got the ring doorbell and it says “motion at the front door.” \

\ Lisa: (02:29) \ So you’ll be like “motion detected in Toolkit headquarters.” \

\ Sarah: (02:33) \ I know right? Seriously, but no–did you kind of love it? Having the office to yourself though? You probably did. You were super focused I bet, no distractions. \

\ Lisa: (02:39) \ Yeah it’s not the love it. I love, I love being around you Sarah. \

\ Sarah: (02:43) \ Everybody knows that Lisa. \

\ Lisa: (02:45) \ No, I like being around people, but I think it just allowed me to completely focus on my own thing, because that is the hard thing. Whether it’s us two working together, or if you’re working in a school and you have other related services in your office, or even teachers walking by. People pull you into their things. Sometimes it’s work things. Sometimes it’s personal things, but you get pulled in. \

\ Sarah: (03:06) \ So technically I was on vacation last week, but not really. I just surprised a friend in Chicago. And the lovely thing was he had to work all day. And so I was in his apartment, which happened to be on the 29th floor in downtown Chicago. \

\ Lisa: (03:24) \ That’s gotta be a hideous view. \

\ Sarah: (03:25) \ Oh the view was hideous. And he has all windows. And so there was something about just being a part of a big city like that \

\ Lisa: (03:32) \ the bustle, yeah there’s energy. \

\ Sarah: (03:34) \ it energized me and I hustled. I worked from like– I woke up when he left at 6:30 AM and I worked until he came home at like five. I got a ton done. It was awesome. \

\ Lisa: (03:45) \ So you were like– it was like 4:30 AM our time. \

\ Sarah: (03:48) \ Oh yeah, yeah, no, no, no. My sleeping was way, way off. \

\ Lisa: (03:51) \ That’s tough. \

\ Sarah: (03:51) \ I know, but it was awesome. I really loved it. And I loved, I got a lot done. And then at night we would go do things in Chicago, so beautiful. I mean, we spend a lot of time in Chicago. I feel like we’ve been there several times for business trips and like speaking engagements and things. And so anyway, I really do love it there. This is the first time I’ve been there not in the winter. Oh no. We went early October another time. \

\ Lisa: (04:12) \ No, we went in February during the blizzard remember? \

\ Sarah: (04:14) \ No, no, I’m saying this was the first time I’ve been there not in the winter. Usually we’re there in the winter. And so the fall leaves were so beautiful. I loved it, but anyway–segue, this is not what the episode’s about– but segue into– I talked about this on our Instagram story– is shout out to all of you in Illinois. We are very aware of that new state law that passed. And so I talked about it in my Instagram story. I did realize after the fact, I don’t think it was clear that I said it was a state law. So I had like a little bit of panic. Is this a federal law? Does this impact all the states? No, this was something specific to Illinois. But it was, to me, I feel like I can see a lot of states going in this direction because a lot of this is likely due to the fact of more disclosure and more accountability and more data and more transparency. Right. \

\ Lisa: (05:08) \ Right. They want to know– and think about that, parents want to know what you’ve done, how you’ve come to these decisions and think about that whole end year ruling, which that’s what that all talked about too, is needing data driven decisions. So I think there is going to be a ripple effect in different states and how they’re reacting in their state legislature in response to having now that new Supreme court ruling. \

\ Sarah: (05:28) \ Right. So for those of you have no idea what we’re talking about, Illinois passed a new bill, maybe a couple of months ago. I want to say. And not only are they required to send an IEP home in advance of a meeting by I think a week. Which we were told to do that in Mesa, I never did it, but this is an actual state law where they’re required to, but they’re also required to send home documentation and attendance reports and all the data and assessment data and all of these things. And so we’ve gotten some awesome love from our toolkit users because they didn’t have to reinvent the wheel. They didn’t have to pan it cause they had all of the data they needed. \

\ Lisa: (06:05) \ Right, it was just a print. \

\ Sarah: (06:06) \ They just had to print and anyway, that’s super cool. So we’re hoping to get back to Illinois sometime in the near future, and meet with some of you to kind of talk about how we think SLP Toolkit will really help you avoid any of the stress that’s coming from that new bill. And even like you’ve talked about with Andrew in a bill like this I think– and the things that we talk about as far as data and oh, shout out, we’ve got that data podcast episode this week with SLP live. \

\ Lisa: (06:37) \ That is super exciting, our first Podcon. \

\ Sarah: (06:38) \ Right? So we’re talking all about data for that. I know we talk a lot about how to write quality IEP’s. And sometimes I feel like it makes people go “hold up, you’re telling me there’s more to do?” or “there’s more stress now you’ve added to my plate” and that’s not what any of this is about. We’re trying to streamline all of that. And it all comes down to giving you the tools you need to feel super confident. \

\ Lisa: (06:59) \ And that’s the thing data is. It’s organizing your data, I think is what the challenge is. It’s not that you’re not taking data, but it’s how we’re taking it, the amount of data we’re taking, how we’re looking at it and reflecting on it, all of that is a totally different ball game. And I know, especially when I first started as an SLP, it was solely taken because somebody told me I had to in grad school. We had the SOAP note template, we had to take data. I didn’t really even know– I mean, I knew I was writing pluses and minuses, but I didn’t really even look at that and like zoom out in the bigger picture of why I’m taking that. Like I could see maybe percentages that said, okay, next time we might want to think about this. But no, I have a total different appreciation and love of data than I ever did. \

\ Sarah: (07:44) \ And IEP’s. And so check that out, make sure you go to– I think for the website it’s SLP-live, so that you can get access to that. You’ll be able to earn CEUs by listening to it, and we’re even going to jump on and do a Q and A, and that’s on October 30th. So I’m hoping to get this episode published by today or tomorrow. So hopefully this gives you enough time, but there’s replays too, so you can catch it. So make sure you listen for that episode. Okay. So that wasn’t what really this was all about. But before we actually get into this episode’s confession, we need to talk about something else. \

\ Lisa: (08:19) \ Well, I think if you may have already listened to an episode that we did about our mission trip to Ghana, that we were working with Smiles for Speech on our providing speech therapy to kids over there and working with students. And we also did a social media post about that. And they’re gone, the episode’s gone and the post is gone. \

\ Sarah: (08:39) \ And for those of you who subscribe, even before I advertise, I think some of you might get notifications of episodes. Some of you were able to listen to it and then some of you saw maybe advertisements about it, then went to go check it out and it’s gone. We took it down and we’ve never done that before. For those of you who have been following this podcast since day one, you know the entire mission of this podcast is really just a conversation Lisa and I have where we confess things and we are honest and open about different things. And so for the most part, we just put stuff out there. \

\ Lisa: (09:16) \ Well, I think our mission has been too, one and done. \

\ Sarah: (09:19) \ One and done. No scripts, no edits or else this podcast isn’t going to happen. We don’t have all the time to do the research and stuff that we would– like when we’re talking about something really specific and we’re bringing in experts, obviously we’re putting time in there. We are very thoughtful about what it is that we’re wanting the episode to be about. \

\ Lisa: (09:40) \ But this is our lens on topics. \

\ Sarah: (09:42) \ I think we should have had a disclaimer that always says the thoughts and opinions– \

\ Lisa: (09:47) \ do not necessarily reflect the blah blah blah. \

\ Sarah: (09:49) \ Exactly. They are solely ours and any way the long and short of it is I did pull the podcast down because we didn’t get all of the facts right hen it came to the university that we were with, or maybe some of the other details about the trip. And, so what that came down to is– \

\ Lisa: (10:11) \ either edit. \

\ Sarah: (10:12) \ We either had to, well, even the editing, it was probably gonna be too many edits we were probably going to have to rerecord. And so for right now, we’re not going to do that. And so I’m sad about it because I loved having Sandy, the founder of Smiles for Speech as a guest and her talking about her mission, and of course we finally nailed down Shannon from Speechie Musings in the episode, and she talked about her experience. And so anyway, we hope that we’ll get another chance to interview Sandy sometime in the future. We would love to spend more time talking about our experience for volunteering abroad but it’s just going to come out at a different time and we’ll do what we can. We are getting Shannon, I’ve already talked to her. She is coming back for a different episode. \

\ Lisa: (10:56) \ About? \

\ Sarah: (10:57) \ We’re really gonna focus on therapy. Cause that was kind of her– for those of you who didn’t get a chance to listen to it, she really focused on the fact that one of her big takeaways from this trip was not having all of the materials and resources we have readily available at our fingertips all the time. There was a lot of times where we went in– I mean, you and I joked, we literally did therapy with a table and a rubber glove I had in my pocket. And so we’re going to talk to her a lot more about that, about how to do therapy with less and the importance. I think getting back to the importance and the focus on problem solving and flexibility and therapy. So that’s going to be a super great episode. And then it is what it is. So hopefully sometime in the future, we’ll get that episode back on. If you have questions about volunteering abroad, though, please reach out. We would love to talk about our experience with you. So that leads us to what we’ve decided that episode should be about. And this is coming from some different conversations and things that we’ve had lately with people is the confession really, is that putting yourself out there is hard. \

\ Lisa: (12:02) \ Yeah. In any setting, in any way personal, professional. Across the board. \

\ Sarah: (12:06) \ Yes. Yes. We were just at a business related conference called the Entrepreneur Experience with Amy Porterfield, who I may have a crush on. And it was really powerful. I need those kinds of motivational and inspiring conferences to get me– like when I’m in a lull. \

\ Lisa: (12:29) \ like re-energized? \

\ Sarah: (12:29) \ Yeah, I needed to be re-energized. So it was really good in a lot of ways, but there’s moments, even we know when she’s talking about these things we need to be doing, or Jasmine Star came on and talked about Instagram or Rachel Hollis, who, by the way, is she not our favorite? \

\ Lisa: (12:42) \ I have never drank that Kool-Aid before– \

\ Sarah: (12:45) \ I know you haven’t. \

\ Lisa: (12:45) \ That “Girl Wash your Face.” I’ve heard about it because I think that’s on every post I’ve ever seen over like a period of what two months? Every SLP was reading it– \

\ Sarah: (12:53) \ Oh yeah, it was a New York Times bestseller for over a year. \

\ Lisa: (12:55) \ So I had heard about , but then sometimes when I I’m overexposed– like even that– what’s her name? The Marie Kondo? \

\ Sarah: (13:01) \ Yes, Tidying Up, which I also love. \

\ Lisa: (13:04) \ Yeah. And I get that, but it’s almost like when I become oversaturated that I’m like, eh. \

\ Sarah: (13:09) \ Well. It’s like a song that’s overplayed on a radio, it could be the greatest song in the world but when you keep hearing it, you’re like I hate this song. \

\ Lisa: (13:15) \ I’m like maybe at a later point after it’s not so whatever. \

\ Sarah: (13:18) \ And I agree, Rachel Hollis was very much the thing everyone was talking about, which you and I have the personality, which means that we want nothing to do with it. That’s just kind of how we roll. I won’t lie. Cause I love a good picker up– pick me up kind of book or inspirational whatever. I did get it. I didn’t get past the first couple chapters. \

\ Lisa: (13:36) \ Oh okay. So it’s not just me? \

\ Sarah: (13:38) \ No. And it was actually an audible and it was her telling the story, but I didn’t get into it. And it could’ve just been the season. I always feel like there’s a season for something. And I just wasn’t feeling it that day, that time I was listening, but there was something about her. I don’t know. It just wasn’t sitting with me and I wasn’t buying it. And so when she walked out on the stage, I was just like, whatever, oh great. She’s not really who I came here to hear. I was, you know, whatever. I was more excited about Amy. \

\ Lisa: (14:01) \ I didn’t love her at first. I said I love her now. \

\ Sarah: (14:03) \ And then she came out and blew us away. \

\ Lisa: (14:07) \ She’s a little powerhouse. She’s little– she’s kind of tiny, right? \

\ Sarah: (14:10) \ Tiny and just a powerhouse. She just had so many points and hit so many things home. And one of my favorite takeaways was when she kept saying, get over yourself, get over yourself. And I kept thinking, I need to hear that because we are in a line of work now where we have to put ourselves out there all the time. And I think– I know in my case, I am a horrible over thinker. I am not always the most action oriented person. I’m a dreamer. I’m like the kind of person whose always got some big ideas. I’m also an introvert, which I know seems weird if you follow us on Instagram, because I do some weird things, but I actually naturally am an introvert. And so all of that can be really inhibiting. All of those things. Me overthinking everything and me being a little bit more on the introvert side and so I just needed that reminder that I have– this isn’t about me. I’ve got to get over all of those fears and insecurities and all of those other things I have, because we’re excited about what we do and we want to share it with people. \

\ Lisa: (15:09) \ Well, but let’s get real. It’s a New York Times bestseller not just because it resonates with SLPs, but because it resonates with women across the nation. Because I think as women, we tend to do a lot of those behaviors. We overthink things, we always encounter difficult things– where again, this is not even just SLP related, think in your personal life, anything challenging. We usually do it. And we do 19 different challenging things at a time. But we have a lot of self-talk that tells us we’re stupid. We’re not good enough. We’re not smart enough because we find that there’s challenge or a sense of difficulty in those tasks, which is so crazy because men don’t do this. Men just go into it with optimism. And if they fail, they’re like well, cool. I failed. Not a big deal. I’ll just do it a different way next time. \

\ Sarah: (15:59) \ Move on. I wonder if they even think about it much after. \

\ Lisa: (16:02) \ I think they do it more from like that healthy place of just like, yeah, I did it wrong. I messed up. I’ll just do it again. Which is exactly what as women, we need to kind of adopt that same sort of thinking. We are meant to make mistakes. And even talking to my kids or the students in therapy that I used to work with, I always give that analogy of basketball. Do you think Michael Jordan or LeBron James or whoever just went out the first time and was shooting three points? \

\ Sarah: (16:27) \ Yeah, probably. \

\ Lisa: (16:29) \ Probably. So that was a bad analogy. \

\ Sarah: (16:31) \ He’s gifted. \

\ Lisa: (16:31) \ but everybody has a starting place and the way our brain is wired is they miss a shot and then they look at what they did the last time, they reflect on it. They correct based on that past experience. And then they hone their skill and they hone their craft and yes, again, they’re obscenely talented. \

\ Sarah: (16:49) \ Ok but Michael Jackson– Michael Jackson? Michael Jordan. There’s a whole story about, they didn’t even make the team in high school. So yes, yes. I understand what you’re saying. \

\ Lisa: (16:57) \ But even you and I, picking up basketball and you’re going to suck at first. Then you’re going to keep practicing. If you just say I suck and I can’t play basketball and give up, or just do it because you have to do it, but you’re not really reflecting on it and making corrections based on that. That’s where I think we get tripped up is that we put so much effort into that emotional piece of it when we just need to be like a dude and just be like, yeah, I messed up. Oh, well, let’s see what we’re going to do next time. \

\ Sarah: (17:23) \ Right. And she talked a lot about how a lot of what we’re doing is hard and this, again, this was really more about running and starting up a business. And so that’s what I was reflecting on more so than being an SLP, which is– well, we’re going to get into that in a minute too. But as far as starting up a business– and it is hard and Lisa and I have admitted, we had no idea what we were doing. We’re still learning almost four years later. And so she talked a lot about how we think when something’s really hard, it’s because we suck at it. And it’s not. It’s hard because it’s hard. And so just because you find something challenging, doesn’t mean you’re not good at it. It just means you’re gonna have to put more into it and you’re gonna have to try a little harder and work harder and do your research. And I think that’s what allowed us to do what we do– is SLPs. I think for the most part, we have this personality quality that allows us to be problem solvers and to kind of sit back and look at things and scaffold our thinking– \

\ Lisa: (18:20) \ every day, all day we’re doing that. \

\ Sarah: (18:21) \ Right. Yes. And so we’ve got to remember that things will be hard, and that’s okay that it’s hard and it’s uncomfortable. And I have to learn to kind of sit with that discomfort. And so that’s when it comes to putting ourselves out there. We knew early days that nothing was going to happen with SLP Toolkit if we weren’t willing to put ourselves out there. And so we navigated what that looked like a little bit early days. And at first, it was very much about the business, but then we started to show ourselves a little bit and then we started to show ourselves a little bit more– \

\ Lisa: (18:54) \ on social media. \

\ Sarah: (18:55) \ Yes. And even this podcast is a perfect example. I mean, I swear a lot– which my old self would’ve over-thought that too much and been like, no, I need to really make sure that I don’t swear. And I need to make sure I do all of these things just right and I want to sound super professional and I want to do this. Or, Instagram posts– what the heck does roller skating around the office, holding hedgehogs have to do with anything? \

\ Lisa: (19:22) \ It has to do with everything. What are you talking about? \

\ Sarah: (19:24) \ Right. But we put ourselves out there and we kind of just committed that we were just going to be unapologetic about it. And not in the way of we’ll just do exactly– \

\ Lisa: (19:33) \ Not an offensive– \

\ Sarah: (19:33) \ I’m never going to say and do whatever I want because I don’t want to ever be very on the offensive side– \

\ Lisa: (19:43) \ I think of it as we’re not cavalier in our opinions or feelings, but we’re confident in expressing exactly who we are. \

\ Sarah: (19:49) \ Right. And we want to be our authentic selves and we hope that we’re relatable to some people. And that’s going to come with sometimes we are going to offend a little bit. I’m sure when I drop some language on this podcast– \

\ Lisa: (19:59) \ if your mom’s listening she’s super offended. \

\ Sarah: (20:01) \ My mother would be so bothered by it. She would find that offensive. And so I know we do say things– and I remember a post, it was actually one of my favorite Instagram posts. And it came from a quote one of our users gave us and it had a bad word in it. And somebody had something to say about that– \

\ Lisa: (20:19) \ Oh what was that again? It makes me– oh– I just speech pathologized the shit out of this meeting. That’s the greatest. \

\ Sarah: (20:25) \ Which, you guys, still stand by. And I’d like a tee shirt that says that. But we did offend somebody and here’s the deal. I appreciate that she told me she was offended. And I respect that, but at the same time, I didn’t take the post down. And I don’t even know if I apologized, because I stood by it. I felt really strongly that that post spoke volumes to many of you and that you would relate to that. \

\ Lisa: (20:51) \ And to us. We’re not putting something out there just to relate to you. We’re putting out what relates to us. And we know that we’re not the only ones that it resonates with. \

\ Sarah: (20:59) \ Yes. So, there is the part of me who overthinks things. I’ve talked about this in several episodes before that when I do get feedback that is not nice it causes me to want to react in a certain way, but at the same time, I’ve got to get out of my own way here. And we always want to be honest and authentic and real, and it is what it is. And here’s what we’ve decided a while back too– you’re not all gonna like us. \

\ Lisa: (21:27) \ what? \

\ Sarah: (21:28) \ I know. Lisa, not everybody likes you. \

\ Lisa: (21:31) \ What? Say, say it one more– say it again, say it again. \

\ Sarah: (21:33) \ Okay. Lisa, not everybody likes you. \

\ Lisa: (21:36) \ All right. \

\ Sarah: (21:37) \ I know it hurts to know that but it’s true. \

\ Lisa: (21:39) \ I just feel like you’re a liar face right now, but whatever. Keep going with your train of thought. \

\ Sarah: (21:43) \ No, and that’s the thing is we’re not trying to win a popularity contest. I know I’m not for everyone, which is, I mean, sad for you. But anyway, and so this kind of– to segue into, you know, sometimes we don’t talk about SLP related things on this podcast at all, but really it does apply to that also. Sitting in a meeting with a team of people and parents and experts in other areas, and teachers, maybe your principal, an advocate. All of these people sitting in a meeting, turning to you to listen to you as the expert in this area. \

\ Lisa: (22:18) \ It’s an awesome feeling. \

\ Sarah: (22:19) \ Talk about putting yourself out there. And I don’t know very many– you could feel like such an expert and you could be so confident in your skills. And I still can’t imagine that that sits well with you every meeting to have people looking at you to be the expert. And so that’s another time where you’ve just kind of got to get over yourself a little bit and you’ve got to be willing to put yourself out there and do what’s best for kids. And it might not always be like a popular choice. I have been in some disagreements with– I mean, not in an IEP meeting, I wouldn’t fight with my team because that’s not professional, but I have had it out with team members before in the best interests of children and really put myself out on the line and probably made some enemies in the process. But I felt really, really strongly about that. Or sitting in a meeting. You used to have to come into meetings, they were not ever like the feel good sunshiny ones. They were always the tough meetings, and you’d have to put yourself out there and not only look like the SLP expert, but also almost administrative. \

\ Lisa: (23:23) \ Well here’s the deal that I think my biggest takeaway from that kind of experience in sitting in those meetings is before I had the opportunity to be in that role and I was just full time SLP working in my school, doing my own meetings. I remember I kind of shied away from people calling me the expert, the communication expert, whatever. And even one time, I remember really clearly this kindergarten teacher coming up to me and saying, well, you’re the expert. And I was like, you’re a kindergarten teacher. You are an expert in communication as well because they have all of those emergent language skills in that time. So she had been a teacher for like 25 years. She has a set of expertise with that population too. So I kind of try to like– but I feel like when I was saying that was passing the buck, almost like, whoa, don’t look to me for all the answers because I don’t have them. Instead of, as I went through these meetings and really looked again at the idea of those meetings are really just a group of people looking at a set of data on a student and coming to the same conclusions based on the data presented. So in that scenario, if things came up that I felt like I had really great data on, because I do have more opportunities. That is my focus, is that communication lens. Then I kind of am the expert on that kid’s skills in that area and if anybody ever attacked– you know, sometimes those meetings are always so funky because there’s so many layers of emotion– \

\ Sarah: (24:50) \ and ego. \

\ Lisa: (24:50) \ yes. So you even think of some of the advocates I’ve dealt with, some are just really laser focused on the details and making sure that that family is supported. Some of those advocates just get off on the power trip. Yeah. Like trying to get whatever they can. And so they add that layer of emotionality to that, attorneys add a layer of just like, man, you feel really uncomfortable that people are looking at you then in that moment as an expert. But I would say the shift for me was when I looked at it as I am the best person to collect data in this area, do we have enough data as a team? If you’re picking apart my recommendations based on what I’m making from a set of data, then let’s look at why. Like, are you picking it apart and there’s something valid in what you’re picking apart that we need to collect more data on? Or are you just throwing out arbitrary information where I can then refer back to my set of data and say, well, that doesn’t really fit in to this profile we have on the student. So when you take out the “me” part of it and the emotion, and you focus it on that set of data and how you can facilitate interpreting the data, collecting more data if you need to, all of that kind of stuff, that to me helped take a lot of the pressure off in those kinds of situations. \

\ Sarah: (26:13) \ Yes. And I think it applies to so much of what we do as SLPs too, because we always have to put ourselves out there with creating relationships with our team. That can be really a big challenge. And again, when I’m telling you that there were times where I wasn’t popular and maybe made some enemies going to bat for students that was not straight out the gate. I had rapport with these people. That’s really important. And we’re going to do an entire episode about not only rapport with our team, but rapport with students. But so know that. I don’t mean I ever come in guns blazing over something because clearly you’re never going to win in that way. So what I meant by that is when I feel strongly about something I don’t want to cower back or get insecure in my knowledge, be so overwhelmed by my imposter syndrome– \

\ Lisa: (27:05) \ and how somebody else might feel if you’re talking to them about this. \

\ Sarah: (27:08) \ Exactly. That I don’t stand up for something I believe in or that I feel really strongly about. \

\ Lisa: (27:09) \ Well, I will tell you having worked with you in that role, where we were SLPs at the same district and hearing some of these scenarios kind of firsthand. The thing that struck me with you is that you were very passionate about your students. And I think it’s very hard to argue with somebody going a hundred percent, or at bat or whatever you want, whatever that expression is, because you’re looking at the student’s best interest. For me, where it used to drive me crazy was if somebody was trying to make those same sort of arguments because it was best for the staff. So that’s one thing. The other kind of thing that I think is really difficult about some individuals that I’ve worked with is when they come in with this expert view, because they want to show off how much knowledge they have. \

\ Sarah: (28:02) \ It’s ego again. \

\ Lisa: (28:02) \ Yes. So those are the things where I think with you, were there times that you had some emotional conversations with team members? Yes. But it always came from that student focused perspective. And to me, even if you don’t agree with, with whatever that conversation is, I think you can put the focus on appreciating where that’s coming from versus the ego one where it’s just like let me talk about everything I know to show you how much I know and so you can think I’m so smart. Which when I encounter that kind of personality, my wall goes right up where I’m like, I am seeing your mouth move right now. You could be the smartest person in the room. And I can’t hear a damn word you’re saying, because it’s all about you and it’s not about students. And it drives me nuts. \

\ Sarah: (28:44) \ A hundred percent. And that’s the point, you’ve got to get over yourself. This isn’t about you. This isn’t about your ego. This isn’t a pissing contest. This isn’t your opportunity to grand stand or get up on a soap box. it’s putting yourself out there to, again, really fight for something that you believe in. It always comes down to the students. And, in the other regard too of us running this business, this isn’t about us filling some egomaniac need to be out there and showing off this awesome product for the sake of the product, because that’s– we were set out to do this crazy business. We actually don’t want any of them. If we could have stayed under the radar and still wrapped up this product with a bow and put it out in the world, we would have done it. \

\ Lisa: (29:34) \ I love though hearing– like we get emails from you guys. And sometimes I see even in the reviews in the podcast area where it does make an impact for people. And that’s the big thing is– and I see this in the SLP community at large right now where we were so isolated for so long where you might’ve been the only SLP in your setting. And now that we have this awesome technology at our fingertips, we are able to connect. And there is– I think that’s empowering in itself just knowing that you’re not alone and that there are other people going through the same struggle. And I think what you and I always try to focus on is more that idea of just don’t get stuck there, have your moments, but overall, zoom out, look at what needs to get done, keep it positive and keep it moving. \

\ Sarah: (30:19) \ Yeah, I think so too. And you know– here’s the deal is we really are confident that we did create a solution that can really make SLPs lives better and we really want to have that positive impact for SLPs. And so again, we put ourselves out there so that we can make sure that we can get this in the hands of as many people as possible. And so I needed that whole entrepreneur experience again, to remind myself of that. Things like sales are really hard for me. if I had my way, I would have just given this away to everybody. \

\ Lisa: (30:54) \ And I said, no. \

\ Sarah: (30:55) \ you and the business coach, who said you have no business, you can’t do that. This thing will fail. And so even that was really, really hard for me is I never wanted to come off salesy, but we strongly believe in this resource that we have created and we are proud of what we have done and so we’ve got to put ourselves out there. It is hard. Running a business is hard. Being an SLP is hard. \

\ Lisa: (31:22) \ Being a woman, being a wife, being a mother, \

\ Sarah: (31:25) \ It’s all hard. But I think what I don’t want is to have a life of regret. And I think during the conference, somebody even made that comment, nobody ever gets to the end of their life talking about all the amazing things they did. They talk about all the things they wished they would have done. And I don’t want to be that person. And I don’t want you guys to be that person. So, if there’s any big takeaways from this episode, I really thought, this is an important one for us to know that we’ve got to be willing to put ourselves out there, to push ourselves, to grow in any way that is so that you’re living your very best life. \

\ Lisa: (32:03) \ And putting yourself out there and growing can involve– and actually not can– will involve stumbling, will involve mistakes, failure, discomfort. And those things are fine. And that’s that whole thing. If you’ve ever read the research behind growth mindset, that whole sense of struggle is where the real learning comes from. So forgive yourself, be easy on yourself, love yourself \

\ Sarah: (32:32) \ Get over yourself. \

\ Lisa: (32:32) \ Get over yourself. It’s all going to be good. And we got your back too. \

\ Sarah: (32:35) \ Absolutely. So we are really excited. We’ve got some awesome episodes coming up, but as always, we want to hear from you. We want to know if there’s topics you want us to talk about. If you have questions that you want us to address, we’re happy to do that. You can email us at We also want to hear from you if you like this podcast, please go rate and review us. You can click the stars and leave a little comment. It really means a lot to us, because we’re putting ourselves out there to do this, and we do our best to keep it authentically us. At the same time, we hope there’s value, and it’s not just us sitting in this confessional talking about nothing. And so anyway, we love to hear from you on that. And that’s it. I think the next time we’re going to be talking though it’s going to be about ASHA. \

\ Lisa: (33:28) \ Oh, I can’t wait. Also, email us if you guys are going, cause we’d love– we’re exhibiting at ASHA so we’ll see you. If you want to stop by the booth and say, hi. \

\ Sarah: (33:37) \ Yes, we want to meet you in person. I feel like we talk to so many people on social media and you become our best friends virtually. And so we’d love to meet in real life. So please stop by and say hi. And if you see us out and about say hi and that’s it for this one. \

\ Lisa: (33:51) \ Alright. See you later, guys. \

\ Sarah: (33:52) \ Alright, peace out.